Ex-Olympian debates trans politics over Dr Phil: No training can ‘get past biology’ in women’s sports

A former Olympic swimmer argued with a trans activist on Friday’s episode of Dr Phil over whether biological men should be allowed to compete in women’s sports.

Lawyer and former Olympian Nancy Hogshead-Makar warned that “there is no practice, no coach, this is going to go beyond biology“. She added that “at every level of sport, trans women are taking places away from women, and that’s just not fair.”

She claimed during the episode that a biological male who has gone through puberty has more than size on his side when competing against biological women.

“It’s not just the size and the bigger lung capacity and heart, it’s also like a bigger throat, I mean it was the first time I felt jealous of men,” said Hogshead-Makar, adding that while swimming you have to breathe quickly while above water to pick up more oxygen. “Having a 40% bigger throat for me would have been amazing.”

Protesters listen to the speaking program during a ‘Our Bodies, Our Sports’ rally for the 50th anniversary of Title IX at Freedom Plaza on June 23, 2022 in Washington, DC
((Photo by Anna Moneymaker/Getty Images))

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She also spoke with Dr. Phil about how she had competed against women from East Germany, who were using performance-enhancing drugs to the point that they had to shave. Hogshead-Makar warned that women who were artificially aided by the addition of testosterone “were never competitive against men”.

Transgender lawyer Layne Ingram pushed back against Hogshead-Makar’s position that men have an even advantage over women.

“We can’t overgeneralize and say ‘T affects everything’ and scientifically there’s no evidence that says that because of testosterone levels, trans women have an inherent competitive advantage,” Ingram said. .

Hogshead-Makar held firm.

Dr. Phil has tackled some of America's most controversial topics in recent weeks.

Dr. Phil has tackled some of America’s most controversial topics in recent weeks.
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“I think having gone through male puberty gives someone an edge that you just can’t train, train, eat, sleep for, right? There’s nothing anyone can do that can make up for Leah Thomas’ six-foot-four, bigger hands, longer limbs, bone density, bigger throat,” she said.

Dr Phil also spoke with swimmer Riley Gains, who tied with transgender athlete Lia Thomas for fifth place at an NCAA swimming meet.

She told Dr. Phil that she felt the experience was “grossly unfair”, adding that “we had someone who spent three years on the men’s side at UPenn, all of a sudden the last year passed on the women’s side.

“Thomas was in the 400 and 500 nationally ranked, and a year later he ranks number one, and so I think that shows you that there are advantages to having and denying, so that challenges in kind of science, it defies common sense, it defies logic, it defies reason, Gains continued.

University of Pennsylvania swimmer Lia Thomas accepts the winning trophy in the 500m freestyle final as second place Emma Weyant and third place Erica Sullivan look on during the NCAA Swimming and Diving Championships.

University of Pennsylvania swimmer Lia Thomas accepts the winning trophy in the 500m freestyle final as second place Emma Weyant and third place Erica Sullivan look on during the NCAA Swimming and Diving Championships.
(Photo by Rich von Biberstein/Icon Sportswire via Getty Images)

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She went on to note that “listening to Thomas’ interview when he was asked about it, you know, how you were able to rank so much higher as a woman, Thomas said ‘well , it’s because I was able to be happy and compete happy. “”

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